coast concordia and cheerful

[SHIREN]

I think you are approaching the problem badly in the sense that the coast will spend 600 or more million
the first, very important step has been completed
with great satisfaction and
the first step.

Hello exa... .
I apologize if maybe in the answer I'll be "out of line"
or say or write idiocy
But
in the 50-60s in the after war
I still remember in the harbour area of napoli the recovery to sea of the scraps
of ships sunk during the war and from napoli to ponza there were several
there were teams of palombari with their high pressure cannelli
that cut the ships from scrap (the equipment was not those of today)
the scraps went in a poggiore zone" famous napoli district"
in an area called "scasso"
where those who needed it bought cheap pipe sheets and everything on a ship
I wonder
instead of 500-600 engineers and 150 divers and a mess of firemen civil protection etc etc etc etc etc etc.
50-100-150 palombari could not be enough
and demolished the whole place?? ? ? ? ?
you could answer me that it polluted the coast
but what would cost a reclamation of a mile of sea
I could go on.
but perhaps I have given idea of my thought
Thank you very much
a hug exa............

 

[Exatem]

Hello exa... .
I apologize if maybe in the answer I'll be "out of line"
or say or write idiocy
But
in the 50-60s in the after war
I still remember in the harbour area of napoli the recovery to sea of the scraps
of ships sunk during the war and from napoli to ponza there were several
there were teams of palombari with their high pressure cannelli
that cut the ships from scrap (the equipment was not those of today)
the scraps went in a poggiore zone" famous napoli district"
in an area called "scasso"
where those who needed it bought cheap pipe sheets and everything on a ship
I wonder
instead of 500-600 engineers and 150 divers and a mess of firemen civil protection etc etc etc etc etc etc.
50-100-150 palombari could not be enough
and demolished the whole place?? ? ? ? ?
you could answer me that it polluted the coast
but what would cost a reclamation of a mile of sea
I could go on.
but perhaps I have given idea of my thought
Thank you very much
a hug exa............

Hello dear enzo, a hug to you too.
no, on-site demolition was the last chance for environmental risk. we are inside a natural park and the sanctuary of cetaceans. you imagine what would mean the diversing of tons of oils, detergents, acids, avariate foods, etc. etc. ?(risk not yet exceeded).
the comparison with the post-war period is not possible simply because the laws have changed in the meantime.
For example, since February 1992 the law was in force (and all subsequent changes are also more restrictive) than the treatment of special waste, which in those years did not exist.
what was done freely in those years, today is unlikely. For example, think of the asbestos law, how would you demolish a boiler ship today? setting up a yard for the treatment of asbestos with the enormous costs that follow it is the answer.
even from us until the end of the 80s we demolished the abandoned units, but then everything ended because of the difficulties and costs that they generated.
I remember that for the sale of a wreck of a large boiler cruiser, we tribolammo not little to find a buyer because the disposal of asbestos on board was evaluated then a higher figure of the scrap value of the ship itself. it took a special authorization to proceed to the sale at a symbolic price as soon as possible, that is, before the wreck sank thus avoiding all the controversies that would be achieved. for the record the unit in question was purchased by an Italian company who then picked it abroad for demolition.
This does not mean that today we do not get demolished, but we do mainly in countries with more "elastic" environmental jurisdiction.
It was not by chance that the Turks were insistent. .

 

[MBT]

That doesn't mean he doesn't pollute himself. simply that you do it in a place where "you do not see" (but you feel and you will feel tomorrow also from us... )
end polemic, let's go back on board. ...

 

[Tequila]

That doesn't mean he doesn't pollute himself. simply that you do it in a place where "you do not see" (but you feel and you will feel tomorrow also from us... )
end polemic, let's go back on board. ...

[OT:] :finger: I add that the same "porcate" are also made in any other area. a random experimentation on animals for cosmetics... a well-known brand long ago advertised to the great that it did not experiment on animals for their products, then discover that they actually did not, but they gave others the task of doing so. [chiuso OT]However, we must see how the situation will evolve from today to next year (preventive), when it will be taken away from the lily. since the skewer had "capotted" it had been said, or rather the newspapers, TV, politicians in turn, etc. had said that within 5-6 months they would take it away from, from my point of view from 13 January 2012 to today they made half a miracle to raise it, because I would bet that it would remain there wonder for how long, in symil manner of the various ecomonsters that have spread there.

I would now be curious to know who the cruise coast would prefer as a nation winner of the demolition contract

 

[enri]

In the meantime, I thought it was strange, they would read this discussion? :
I am, however, still based on the presumed cost of the demolition alone, perhaps because I do not know directly the extent of the intervention, but that a new ship of pacca, welding operations of up, all that is inside, new engine including flame, furniture, and all turnkey, can cost 200 million euros less than a demolition. How is that possible?
However when they build it they use the same basin, I see them very often in a construction site fincantieri, an immense stuff, hundreds of people on site.

 

[Tequila]

@ enrifor me it can cost well that figure also because we are not talking about building a ship from scratch with pieces that are made to drawing and assembled, assembled, etc.
here we talk about having to recover a ship lying on one side, having to design and build a special equipment, mount it and adapt it to make the ship rotate. you must then mount the other tanks to make sure that the ship is galvanized and there are no pollutants. when it will be now they will have to pull it, for which cost of the tow ships etc., upon arrival to the yard of disassembly who knows what they will have to do to succeed to disassemble in safety the ship taking into account that it has a injured side, there will be water and debris deposited inside.
In my opinion, at the end of the accounts, 600 million will rise.

 

[Exatem]

In the meantime, I thought it was strange, they would read this discussion? :
I am, however, still based on the presumed cost of the demolition alone, perhaps because I do not know directly the extent of the intervention, but that a new ship of pacca, welding operations of up, all that is inside, new engine including flame, furniture, and all turnkey, can cost 200 million euros less than a demolition. How is that possible?
However when they build it they use the same basin, I see them very often in a construction site fincantieri, an immense stuff, hundreds of people on site.

@ enrifor me it can cost well that figure also because we are not talking about building a ship from scratch with pieces that are made to drawing and assembled, assembled, etc.
here we talk about having to recover a ship lying on one side, having to design and build a special equipment, mount it and adapt it to make the ship rotate. you must then mount the other tanks to make sure that the ship is galvanized and there are no pollutants. when it will be now they will have to pull it, for which cost of the tow ships etc., upon arrival to the yard of disassembly who knows what they will have to do to succeed to disassemble in safety the ship taking into account that it has a injured side, there will be water and debris deposited inside.
In my opinion, at the end of the accounts, 600 million will rise.

teq told you what I said here:http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showthre...rdia-e-allegra&p=320886&viewfull=1#post320886

 

[enri]

It will be so, they do not shoot random figures, however the cost of 600 million is only about demolition, all preparation until the basin, including rotation they say has had a cost of 60 million. This difference also makes me a bit puzzled. I hope for them that at least the sale of what remains poses lima a little that figure, of steel there is hardly little.

 

[Exatem]

It will be so, they do not shoot random figures, however the cost of 600 million is only about demolition, all preparation until the basin, including rotation they say has had a cost of 60 million. This difference also makes me a bit puzzled. I hope for them that at least the sale of what remains poses lima a little that figure, of steel there is hardly little.

the cost of pure demolition is about 100 million.

 

[enri]

You think? I have heard a hundred times the two figures, 60 operations, 600 demolition, but you know the journalists... if so it started to square, they seemed slightly unbalanced.

 

[Exatem]

You think? I have heard a hundred times the two figures, 60 operations, 600 demolition, but you know the journalists... if so it started to square, they seemed slightly unbalanced.

You know, at the moment official figures provided by the coast do not seem to me that there are or at least they are always quite generic also because it is difficult to predict everything. You can make maximum estimates but there are too many unknowns.
For example, I heard that civitavecchia would be offered to demolish it for free.
for example the coast has committed itself to restoring the marine ecosystem affected by the shipwreck and this will last a few years with hardly foreseeable costs.
As soon as I find some safer info, let's get back to the topic.

 

[PierArg]

I honestly knew that only parbuckling cost $600 million.
http://qn.quotidiano.net/cronaca/2013/09/15/950288-costa-concordia-rotazione-600-milioni.shtml
http://www.huffingtonpost.it/2013/09/12/costa-concordia-parbuckling_n_3912395.html

 

[enri]

I think most journalists didn't understand the costs, I read the opposite.
However they begin to talk about demolitions of ships in bangladesh at "irrisors" costs where the safety in the yard is purely nominal, and there are many possible sites in the world. this is one of the reasons why there are few suitable sites here in Italy.
I was based on the fact that it is possible to carry a ship as the concord in any port globally with a barge, in the Dutch seems to be there a long two times the harmony itself! Perhaps this operation being under the eyes of all will treat it here Italy, for other little known away in other lids, but we accept bets.

 

[Exatem]

I honestly knew that only parbuckling cost $600 million.
http://qn.quotidiano.net/cronaca/2013/09/15/950288-costa-concordia-rotazione-600-milioni.shtml
http://www.huffingtonpost.it/2013/09/12/costa-concordia-parbuckling_n_3912395.html

I think most journalists didn't understand the costs, I read the opposite.
However they begin to talk about demolitions of ships in bangladesh at "irrisors" costs where the safety in the yard is purely nominal, and there are many possible sites in the world. this is one of the reasons why there are few suitable sites here in Italy.
I was based on the fact that it is possible to carry a ship as the concord in any port globally with a barge, in the Dutch seems to be there a long two times the harmony itself! Perhaps this operation being under the eyes of all will treat it here Italy, for other little known away in other lids, but we accept bets.

at the moment there are a lot of voices and two bags of experts

Surely there is that the concord was launched on September 2, 2005 so it is a fairly recent construction. Having been built after the entry into force of Law 257/92 on board there is no asbestos that represents one of the major problems when a ship must be demolished.
the rest are all waste many of which reusable as metals.
in Asian countries where labor laws are more permissive (when there are), where there is little attention to environmental problems, where labor is available at very low cost, the demolition of large ships is a real industry that allows to scrap the hulls at irresistible costs.
look at these videos:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrjygnc_tnchttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwb4cvtnluyhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8wcecmtbrqand then there are many others.

but that the concord takes the course of the bangladesh seems frankly very, very unlikely.

 

[DANI-3D]

Hello, everyone.
This is the ship that could give a tear to the harmony in every place?
http://www.youreporter.it/video_vanguard_la_nave-mostro_che_puo_rimuovere_la_concordia

 

[enri]

Maybe they had shown that, but obviously it's not twice as long.
He's the one shipowners They carry everything!
Fortunately there are few possibilities on the transport of the concord, from 24 hours I read:
"...... .the chartering of the ship is extremely expensive and would be convenient only on condition of bringing the wreck to a country, like the Turk, where the subsequent dismantling costs would be much more contained than Italy. but a problem with this operation. the fact that the Ministry of the Environment has established that "the management of the dismantling of the harmony" must be "insured in compliance with the laws on waste". laws that entrust competence to the regions. for this reason, according to the ministry, "the Tuscan region is responsible for evaluating the project of dismantling and disposal of the ship". which puts serious stakes on the possibility that harmony can be brought out from Italy."

 

[Exatem]

enri anticipated me.
I was reading some news about it, too.
However the dockwise vanguard is a 275 meters long semi-submarine ship, 70 meters wide and has the possibility to load 117.000 tons. was built in the yards hyundai heavy industries in korea for the dockwise, a leading Dutch company in the transport and installation of very large and heavy structures, and it has been operating since December 2012. baptised “dockwise vanguard”, the new ship has been designed for heavy transport and offshore shipping, allowing oil companies to design and build larger and heavier offshore structures. thanks to the load capacity and its design, it is now possible to manufacture megastructures, which are then loaded and transported reducing costs. This is the world's largest semi-submarine ship.
the ship is equipped with control systems that help maintain stability thanks to a control system of the ballast necessary for the dive. In practice it is measuring systems for tanks that provide high precision measurements allowing a precise calculation of the load.
Let us now see why this solution seems difficult to practice:
1) the concordia, once raised with the dumpsters, should have a fishing of 18,5 meters. the dockwise vanguard can dive at a maximum of 16 meters.
2) Supposing to solve the problem at point 1, remains the fact that in Italy very few are the ports having so high seabeds (and basins).
3) the dockwise vanguard has very high rental costs and would be convenient only for transporting the wreck in countries where demolition and subsequent disposal of waste, has extremely advantageous costs.
4) since the agreed coast will be removed from the lily, it will become a “special waste” and the ministry of the environment has established that “the management of the dismantling of the harmony” must be “insured in compliance with the laws on waste”. laws that entrust competence to the regions. for this reason, according to the ministry, "the Tuscan region is responsible for evaluating the project of dismantling and disposal of the ship". which places serious stakes on the possibility that harmony can be brought out from Italy. to be able to transfer it abroad, the coast should require a special international export permit of waste that at the moment the ministry does not seem willing to release.

 

[DANI-3D]

right this morning on republic there is this article:http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...inghiottir_la_concordia-66847829/?ref=hrec1-2

 

[Er Presidente]

What if they don't demolish her?

 

[Oldwarper]

That doesn't mean he doesn't pollute himself. simply that you do it in a place where "you do not see" (but you feel and you will feel tomorrow also from us... )
end polemic, let's go back on board. ...

And by the way... If a tragic accident occurred during the trailer... of the series a malfunction of the valves of the bins or an imprevista (sic...) tiled and the ship breaks and sinks... What would eventually be the balance of costs on the coast?
I have seen many ships (and also ny metro wagons) that once "bonified" they are then sunk.