calculation sheet development and factor k

[Momy985]

I have always used thindesign in which development fits:

• factor k (depending on thickness)
• sheet metal
• Internal radius
• bending threshold (double thickness)

Now I'm asked by the client to use proes.
I did some tests and noticed that:
if I extrude the profile and then the development by inserting the desired k factor the development coincides with that of thinkdesign, if instead I extrude the development and then the piego I find some mm differences on the folds different from 90°.
this is the table for calculating the position of the neutral axis and as a result of the k factor I use for thikdesign:

sheet thickness 0÷2.5 with internal radius equal to thickness --> living edge only on folds of 90° for different angles is considered 1/3 of the psessor.

sheet thickness 3÷6 with internal radius equal to the thickness --> 1/3 of the thickness.

sheet thickness 7÷12 with internal radius equal to thickness --> 0.4 of thickness.

sheet thickness >12 with internal radius equal to thickness --> 0.5 of thickness.

sheet thickness any with internal radius equal to or greater than double thickness 1/2 of the thickness.

Can you explain to me what I have to set up on proe because it gives me the same values?

Thank you.

 

[Prof.]

you have to set the bending table but it is not very simple.
I suggest you contact your dealer.
Bye.

 

[Momy985]

for now I don't care that it does everything automatically...but knowing what data I have to insert corresponding to think to get the same developments.
Finally I am 4 data! and since the think has always disappointed me against the proe .... .

 

[DANI-3D]

I attach files with parameters set according to the thicknesses and type of sheet that I use. just set them as material and at least with ns. machines developments are correct.

greetings

 

[dema]

I attach files with parameters set according to the thicknesses and type of sheet that I use. just set them as material and at least with ns. machines developments are correct.

greetings

I downloaded the file, please explain how to use it? . . .

 

[Momy985]

edit > setup > material and load the material affected by the list.. .

 

[dema]

thanks but I fear that the start part of the company we work for does not prevede to change the material.

Thanks again

 

[POLIDEMO]

hi,some have a table in which they are more or less written : material thickness and consequently factor k to use?so that it is not so easy, but somewhere I will have to start, considering that I have to provide everything to the bending machine because it does not have a developer.

 

[darksun]

Are you a tabella?

 

[Gianp80]

on the just-santochi "mechanical technology" there is published something that is quite reliable, at least for thicknesses <6,00mm

 

[Lucadeg]

I attach files with parameters set according to the thicknesses and type of sheet that I use. just set them as material and at least with ns. machines developments are correct.

greetings

goodsera dani-3d, if you have been able to set through the materials in a satisfactory way the bending parameters must compliment you.:finger:
Unfortunately I with the wf5 have excess errors of about 1-1,5 mm on thicknesses of 2 mm with internal turns including r1-r2 and live edge.
you can tell me what order are the errors of the developments on pieces of about 50 mm x 50 mm and however you can confirm not to use a true fold table (the standard of the proes are in \\ptc\wf5\text\*.bnd) . check if you can edit the part. thank you for your answer

 

[DANI-3D]

Hello.

Unfortunately, the art of piegtura is not an exact science because it is influenced by many factors, in the calculation of the development of a sheet mainly affect the type of material and the tools used, but there are other conditions, less important, but not negligible that are often related to the single machine or the opponent himself, see:

- speed, time and bending power
- efficiency of the machine, for presses a little dated also the temperature of the oil is important for a piece bent at the beginning of the turn can be different from the same piece bent after quanche hour of working
- bending method, folds following, bending area, if at the center of the machine or at the end.

sorry for the preamble but I am a designer of bending presses.

However, in order to solve the problem in a "scientific" way, it is necessary to abandon the theory and seek the collaboration of the bending officer to make one or more sample pieces in the various thicknesses and adapt the theoretical developments of pro-and to those detected in practice. to do this act on the factor parameter y initial bending

change > material > ownership > factor y initial bending

at the end you will get the exact bending data, specific for each application

 

[maxopus]

But you make me understand one thing... at equal factor k and rays you have different developments with the two programs? I don't believe even if you pay me.
I used think for almost 4 years and pro/e by the same and the calculation system is identical.

 

[Lucadeg]

Hello.

Unfortunately, the art of piegtura is not an exact science because it is influenced by many factors, in the calculation of the development of a sheet mainly affect the type of material and the tools used, but there are other conditions, less important, but not negligible that are often related to the single machine or the opponent himself, see:

- speed, time and bending power
- efficiency of the machine, for presses a little dated also the temperature of the oil is important for a piece bent at the beginning of the turn can be different from the same piece bent after quanche hour of working
- bending method, folds following, bending area, if at the center of the machine or at the end.

sorry for the preamble but I am a designer of bending presses.

However, in order to solve the problem in a "scientific" way, it is necessary to abandon the theory and seek the collaboration of the bending officer to make one or more sample pieces in the various thicknesses and adapt the theoretical developments of pro-and to those detected in practice. to do this act on the factor parameter y initial bending

change > material > ownership > factor y initial bending

at the end you will get the exact bending data, specific for each application

I agree with what is said, I also add that the used quarry (usually 8 times thickness) is essential.
the tests were made, but unfortunately the folds are not always made on the same machine and sometimes also by different external suppliers so it is not really easy, cmq I created a variable rule in fz thickness and radius that seems to work well for the pieces folded at 90°. we have some problems with pieces with slightly smaller or considerably greater bend angles.

Moreover, given that the sheet should be folded in the normal sense to the fibers of the material, how much change the behaviour in the case of bending in parallel to the fibers (beyond less resistance)?

thanks 1000 cmq of explanations.

 

[DANI-3D]

is not a problem of the software used, the problem arises in the workshop according to the machine used

 

[blubossa]

Hi.
I resume this discussion because I want to better understand the question of folding tables.... .
I press that I am currently using creo 2.

from what I read in this forum someone talks about setting the fold tables, but where do you do it? ?
dani managed to set the materials according to the thicknesses, I have not yet tried the materials that he posted.... but remains the inconvenience that if in the design stage I change the thickness I have to remember to go to change the material... .

I was thinking of creating a start part for the sheet and inserting relationships that according to the thickness went to set
the k factor automatically. But I don't know if that's possible.... what do you think?

bb

 

[DANI-3D]

ciao, ciao

...someone talks about setting the fold tables, but where do you do it? ?

the k factor is tied to the material and you can change it by entering the properties. I do not know if you can tie k to the thickness, the ideal would automatically assign the material according to the thickness, but also this I do not know if it is possible.
We also feel the other colleagues who advise us.

 

[blubossa]

Bye-bye.



the k factor is tied to the material and you can change it by entering the properties. I do not know if you can tie k to the thickness, the ideal would automatically assign the material according to the thickness, but also this I do not know if it is possible.
We also feel the other colleagues who advise us.

....in the expectation of having other opinions about it, I would like to understand where I create read the fold table you use....how can I do?

Thank you.
bb

 

[DANI-3D]

As I told you before, you have to enter the material properties.

 

[MORENO100]

I carry my experience, unofficial method, defined by me:
imposed the material >> > > the factor y in the set material tab (see attached image) according to the table values (see attached image)
p.s. in the table I reported the corresponding internal bending rays.
so doing I get satisfactory results.