coast concordia and cheerful

[athlon]

hello to all, as soon as it seems you will be tempted to the disenchantment and recovery of the concord coast.

But I have absolutely no idea how to make a ship like this, and then how they think they're unlocking it, have similar operations been attempted in the past?

 

[Ivan1990]

should as first operation, try to weld the spacing, second study various points where to apply floats to try to pull it up straight and balance it, to make possible the towing... At least that's what I've heard, but it seems that there are several specialized companies that are studying what to do.

 

[Tequila]

yesterday they spoke that the recovery operation will be done after emptying the fuel tanks, but that however the procedure will be long and will last until in summer. I have no idea whether they are estimates given by people in the industry or the usual shooting of journalists in turn.

in fact, however, without wanting to be insensitive to those who have lost their lives and to those who have spent terrible moments, that with this jerky we have made a figure of [Bleep] world as never before.
seems to have given a ship to a fearless incompetent who also left the ship first! !

I would like to know that it was a painful accident and not a disaster due to unpredictable events if the insurance (I assume they will have special insurance) will pay the damage. a caxxata like that that could become a disaster with thousands of victims is likely to put a naval company on its knees.


ps: I am curious tonight to see if brown wasp at door to door has already made the plastic of the ship as for the houses of cogne, avetrana, garlasco, etc...

 

[Meccbell]

hello to all, as soon as it seems you will be tempted to the disenchantment and recovery of the concord coast.

In short, not so much, as today the representative for Italy of the Dutch firm responsible for the recovery before the fuel and then the ship spoke of 10-15 days minimum for the first operation and of "unchanged months" for the second.

this always keeping in mind that on the ship there is a measure of seizure of the judicial authority, which considers it "proof" of various hypotheses of crime and that first of all it will not make to avoid a bolt until the fate of the missing will be clarified and then perhaps until the true circumstances of the shipwreck and the actual responsibilities.

but from profane in the technique of disincagliamento or, to the worst, of demolition of naval wrecks, personally I believe that a good year will surely pass.

 

[Exatem]

I have a little time, and then I should never go back to the subject.

after having provided the scrap of the sheets demolished in the impact (even to the good and better as long as stagne) and having emptied as much as possible the hull from the embarked water is proceeded to lighten it to re-priunce the float.
there are essentially two ways to operate recovery of a hull.
the first consists in tearing the hull logically starting from the superstructures obtaining pieces transportable to the ground. It's a definitely easier and less expensive method but has two problems: the necessary time (months) and environmental risk for what could be spilled into water. in this case the ship is lost.

the second, more spectacular and that allows a recovery at least of the hull, consists in straightening.
for this the so-called "pump cylinders" are used, i.e., boxes that are hooked to the hull and then filled with air. the thrust of these boxes, combined with other works, could allow the straightening of the hull. of course also in this case should lighten the hull. in both cases the times are long.
Fortunately, the naphtha crates did not lace in the impact that took place from the ship center to the stern. This makes me think that they have noticed the imminent impact and that they have given everything to the right.
but such a ship has a huge subscriber and time has not been enough.

As an example, I have a complete description (with some photos) of the works that were effetttuated to put back (uselessly) afloat, the hull of the cauliflower after the silution of taranto.

 

[GiGa]

seems to have given a ship to a fearless incompetent who also left the ship first! !

that then, from what I know, the most requested captains for the great ships are (they were) the Italian ones... I think something's gonna change now. . .

Fortunately, the naphtha crates did not lace in the impact that took place from the ship center to the stern. This makes me think that they have noticed the imminent impact and that they have given everything to the right.
but such a ship has a huge subscriber and time has not been enough.

but is not the same error made by titanic, when instead the correct maneuver would be to hit with the bow rather than with the flank?

 

[PierArg]

I have a little time, and then I should never go back to the subject.

after having provided the scrap of the sheets demolished in the impact (even to the good and better as long as stagne) and having emptied as much as possible the hull from the embarked water is proceeded to lighten it to re-priunce the float.
there are essentially two ways to operate recovery of a hull.
the first consists in tearing the hull logically starting from the superstructures obtaining pieces transportable to the ground. It's a definitely easier and less expensive method but has two problems: the necessary time (months) and environmental risk for what could be spilled into water. in this case the ship is lost.

the second, more spectacular and that allows a recovery at least of the hull, consists in straightening.
for this the so-called "pump cylinders" are used, i.e., boxes that are hooked to the hull and then filled with air. the thrust of these boxes, combined with other works, could allow the straightening of the hull. of course also in this case should lighten the hull. in both cases the times are long.
Fortunately, the naphtha crates did not lace in the impact that took place from the ship center to the stern. This makes me think that they have noticed the imminent impact and that they have given everything to the right.
but such a ship has a huge subscriber and time has not been enough.

As an example, I have a complete description (with some photos) of the works that were effetttuated to put back (uselessly) afloat, the hull of the cauliflower after the silution of taranto.

if you can put the photos (when you have time)?

 

[enri]

the recovery will take care of smit's worldin the article where they talked about it and linked the site, it was mentioned precisely to the methods, that maybe exatem will explain briefly, that of the recovery true and precisely through poles put the work in the opposite of the inclination as a point of support, and the dumps, and the demolition on the place literally tearing apart the ship, which is obviously lost.
interesting This is article we say technical, where we emphasize the architecture of today's transatlantics, little stable and aimed at maximum comfort and space more than safety.
the big problem now, in addition to the missing obviously, and probable survivors who are still inside, is that Thursday is expected a tide, the ship is in the balance on two spikes, and if they should start today to cross the oil, unlikely, would take us two weeks!
I hope the tanks keep.
at this point I ask a technical question: the tanks of these ships, are sealed and closed as in the cars, or have vents, of some kind, which in case of tipping would allow the oil to exit?

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I don't say because I don't know, but five or six years ago something like that happened, if I'm not wrong with olbia. a ship from cruise gently shocks the rocks, immediately outside the port. All on the commander, of course, for a complete inept maneuver.

Then I spoke with some commanders during an update course and explained to me... the commander had the order to rest on the rocks to hide other problems to the public. not serious, but that would have caused considerable damage of image.
for details, only in mp.

The beginning of this story seemed like a deja-vù...I don't want the order to be the same, but the maneuver was wrong.
Maybe it's just complotism, and instead it went just like they say to tg... I don't know...

 

[Meccbell]

If so, then the commander is doublely pissed or, worse, doublely delinquent.
in the sea are the same rules that on planes, or rather, those of planes are derived from maritime rules.
the first is that the commander has absolute authority on what to do in case of emergency.
and when you have the responsibility of over 4000 lives and a "game" from over 600 million euros, if anything goes wrong the absolute priority is that first think to save the lives and then, possibly and better yet, also the toy.
and it must be clear that there should not be "shade orders" that tangane.
here passed over an hour before I didn't say he asked for help, but he just admitted that there was a big problem like a house.
and do not say that at first he could not have realized the damage suffered by the hull.
It's not titanic time. here, disconnected in hundreds of hull points, there are as many hundreds of flooding sensors that send in dash all possible and imaginable alarms (there is true that compartment doors closed automatically).

Moreover, those who are "of the trade" teach me that when after certain shocks a ship begins to be disbanded more than one tot, even if you command a boat of those who fan the sponge between the islands of the Swiss alpine lakes, you must put the problem of preparing the abandonment ship, costs what costs.
and that the shipowner will go and get fried.
otherwise instead of a commander, with the "c" capital, it is only a puppet.

 

[Fulvio Romano]

If so, then the commander is doublely pissed or, worse, doublely delinquent.

fully agreed. That's what I think is weird. Before I say that a commander is a jerk, I would say that I would like to better understand what happened. Because until now what I know told me about a news that I trust little.

I don't know what happens on the planes, but the maritime regulations know you well.

 

[Exatem]

the recovery will take care of smit's worldin the article where they talked about it and linked the site, it was mentioned precisely to the methods, that maybe exatem will explain briefly, that of the recovery true and precisely through poles put the work in the opposite of the inclination as a point of support, and the dumps, and the demolition on the place literally tearing apart the ship, which is obviously lost.
interesting This is article we say technical, where we emphasize the architecture of today's transatlantics, little stable and aimed at maximum comfort and space more than safety.
the big problem now, in addition to the missing obviously, and probable survivors who are still inside, is that Thursday is expected a tide, the ship is in the balance on two spikes, and if they should start today to cross the oil, unlikely, would take us two weeks!
I hope the tanks keep.
at this point I ask a technical question: the tanks of these ships, are sealed and closed as in the cars, or have vents, of some kind, which in case of tipping would allow the oil to exit?

I promise to write a more detailed description but still work in the office we did a quick examination and came out a discreet metacentric height.
Despite the dead work is much greater than the living work (61 meters against 8.5), a ship of this size, 38 meters wide, maintains sufficient transversal stability.
the problem occurs when the tear reaches these dimensions. with 70 meters of open hull, the premises that have flooded have compromised the arrangement irreparably.
I read a little ago that the space needed to stop a ship like this, is 1 and a half km so it consolidates the idea that even if they realized what was going to happen, the reaction times were not enough. 290 meters of ship do not handle them in 150 meters, whoever you are.
for now it is premature to express absolute opinions, but I regret the idea that the ship attempted a rapid approach to the right hitting the rock with the center-upper part. from what I read the machine room was completely flooded after 20 minutes.
as regards the tanks (on a ship are called "casses"), they are obtained in the double background of prora. all the speakers must have air vents (it would not be possible to fill them otherwise) but there are safety systems.
The big problem is time.
if the sea is maintained under these conditions, the hull will be drilled at the crates and the fuel will be sucked.
but they are not simple and long operations.
about making the ship stagnate and blowing air to empty it, well, there is a further difficulty.
cruise ships have an infinity of windows, openings, windows, etc. so it is impossible to think about closing them all.
at the present time I would propend for demolition on site.
there is then a scaramian consideration (for those who believe it).
if the ship was recovered and reported in the conditions before the disaster, how many would be willing to pay the ticket for a cruise, considering that it is now silent to be a "unlucked" ship? (from the bottle that does not break to the shipwreck).

 

[PaoloColombani]

Fortunately, the naphtha crates did not lace in the impact that took place from the ship center to the stern. This makes me think that they have noticed the imminent impact and that they have given everything to the right.
but such a ship has a huge subscriber and time has not been enough.

I thought the same thing when I saw the quarcio beginning in the middle and gradually ends with the inclusion of a piece of rock in the keel.
my opinion however is that a ship carrying 4000 people can not and should not wave immediately after a few moments even with a tear of that size. apart from the fact that there are some bilge pumps that work like hydrovores, but how are the stagne bulkheads organized in these ships?

 

[Exatem]

I thought the same thing when I saw the quarcio beginning in the middle and gradually ends with the inclusion of a piece of rock in the keel.
my opinion however is that a ship carrying 4000 people can not and should not wave immediately after a few moments even with a tear of that size. apart from the fact that there are some bilge pumps that work like hydrovores, but how are the stagne bulkheads organized in these ships?

depends on the ship area.
without seeing the drawings I would say 10, 20 meters. therefore were interested at least 4 local. no ship floats with 4 adjacent compartments flooded, perhaps not even the military who have much more fierce requirements.
the bilge pumps, if the ship went in black out, do not serve anything and in any case, even the so-called "great exhaustion", fail to pump the water that enters from a squarcio of such size.
I think, given the dynamics, the ship was to be considered lost.
well did in this case the commander (despite all), to try to bring it "in dry". If there were 80 meters of water, the ship would turn over.

 

[Meccbell]

if they had noticed going to slam, the commander had to put immediately in alert all the crew and staff on board (which are 2 different things, especially if the second is little more maneuverance in livery, as it is on almost all the cruise ships), saying "boys, we have a big trouble like a phallus. I think you have to run away before the situation gets hurt. gather the passengers and send them to the drop-off points. Now!

then the times and ways to manage a ship abandonment of thousands of people without making sure that it becomes a Dantesian group are in the rules of behaviour and training of the crew.
But in certain situations every minute you lose is a minute that approaches you to the barter.

 

[PaoloColombani]

well did in this case the commander (despite all), to try to bring it "in dry". If there were 80 meters of water, the ship would turn over.

In fact, it would have been a disaster, a real catastrophe. But in this case the question of the safety of cruise ships would be raised. How environmental disasters have imposed construction standards for oil tankers, I refer to the double hull, in the case of cruise ships if it would be possible to make structural changes in order to minimize the volume of flooded premises?

 

[Exatem]

if they had noticed going to slam, the commander had to put immediately in alert all the crew and staff on board (which are 2 different things, especially if the second is little more maneuverance in livery, as it is on almost all the ships from cruise), saying "boys, we have a big trouble like a spearhead. I think you have to run away before the situation gets hurt. gather the passengers and send them to the drop-off points. Now!

then the times and ways to manage a ship abandonment of thousands of people without making sure that it becomes a Dantesian group are in the rules of behaviour and training of the crew.
But in certain situations every minute you lose is a minute that approaches you to the barter.

In fact, when we talk about crew, we should distinguish between seafarers and entertainment workers.
You cannot think that a dancer manages passengers in an emergency situation like a sinking.
and in fact the most serious accusation against the commander, is to have abandoned the ship before complete evacuation. the titanic commander, for example, you want for duty, you want for guilt, sank with the ship. Now this is perhaps exaggerated but safety passenger and crew is priority once an emergency has occurred.

 

[Exatem]

In fact, it would have been a disaster, a real catastrophe. But in this case the question of the safety of cruise ships would be raised. How environmental disasters have imposed construction standards for oil tankers, I refer to the double hull, in the case of cruise ships if it would be possible to make structural changes in order to minimize the volume of flooded premises?

I was reading the article linked by enri where the problem of double hull is raised.
As reported in the article, there is no double hull for a matter of non-paying volumes, which would be subtracted to the spaces for passengers.
returning to the question of stability and metacentric height, we prefer a relatively low height, to have a "lower" ship on the waves and therefore, less annoying for passengers.
keep in mind that these ships, carefully avoid navigating through storms, bad weather, etc. etc.
In short, I would say that more than being ships, they are now reduced to wellness centers and floating casinos in which it counts only to soddifate the astrusities of passengers (climbing walls, real trees, artificial snow and other amenities of the genus).

 

[Ocean_CAD]

I can only agree with exatem on the considerations of naval architecture. I have always considered modern cruise ships (the floating hotels, to understand us) a real abomination.
poor passengers, however, ended up in a pretty mess.

 

[Exatem]

I can only agree with exatem on the considerations of naval architecture. I have always considered modern cruise ships (the floating hotels, to understand us) a real abomination.
poor passengers, however, ended up in a pretty mess.

Submersible? a fan like me of submarines?
to read you "over and under the waves" at least from here:http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showpost.php?p=162378&postcount=393:biggrin: