3d master project

[falonef]

Hello everyone,
I was appointed by the company for which I work a new project.
It is a question of assessing the possibility and feasibility of allowing the technical office through the cad catia v5 to generally suppress the creation of the design and quotate the piece directly in the 3d. therefore no more drawings to quote and distribute but to make available the 3d file with all the information necessary for its realization.

the task is not easy at all, there are methodologies to reinvent and to keep in mind the interfaces with other departments (quality, industrialization, workshop etc.)

the problem of management with the plm was deliberately not taken into account otherwise it would have to extend the duration of the project.

the objective is to verify the feasibility of a passage to the 3d master within 3 months.
if the result will be positive, the project will be closed and will pass on to the new project poc (proof of concept).

as already mentioned the software available is catia v5, the version currently used is r24 sp05.
the appropriate form for listing in 3d is fta (functional tolerancing and annotations).

the speech is interesting, because the management has approved the financing and through our business partner we have the possibility to work directly with a specialist 3d master of dassault systèmes (developer of software catia v5 and not only http://www.3ds.com ).

I would love to share my experiences with someone who has already dealt with this speech inindependentmente from the software used. are also available for opinions and advice on this subject.I hope the post interests many users of the forum.

working sector: watchmaker

ps: I hope I have posted in the right section. If this weren't the moderator to let me know and move to the appropriate section.

 

[Lettore espatriato]

Good evening falonef,
I immediately say that I consider this post very interesting and thank you for bringing this theme to light, although, despite myself, I will not be able to be a "shower" on this theme.
I hope, however, that even people like the matrix or parametricozzy, who have certainly dealt with such issues for their respective homes, can bring some more info.
I think it is the hardest part of the process, that is, "convince people."
Thanks again.

 

[cacciatorino]

ps: I hope I have posted in the right section. If this weren't the moderator to let me know and move to the appropriate section.

If I don't remember, you're the German guy, right? If I were you, I'd try to ask then www.cad.de, so double (or maybe better triple or quadruple) the chance to have a useful answer.

 

[falonef]

Hello hunter,
already done in the forum cad.de;-)

thanks anyway for the advice

 

[falonef]

... it seems to me to be the hardest part of the process, that is, "convince people."
Thanks again.

for that I can feel lucky because the manager of the technical office is the sponsor of the 3d master project, so it is he who forces this solution.

 

[falonef]

... I hope, however, that even people like the matrix or parametricozzy, who have certainly dealt with such issues for their respective homes, can bring some more info.
. .

the matrix or parametricozzy if you beat us a shot;-)

 

[falonef]

Hello everyone,
I wanted to update the post with our latest information.

the project consists of three phases: presales -> poc (prof of concept) / golive
we are currently in the preset phase, here are our impressions:
benefits fta:

• with the fta module we can recover quotas and tolerances from the sketcher (if these are present)
• avoid edition errors
• a single possible quotation (no redundancies of quotas)
• no redundancy with geometric tolerances
• fta shares are connected directly to geometry
• an intelligence allows selection only plausible tolerances (in this case fta guides us and advises in the choice of tolerances avoiding errors)
• calculation of average quotas tolerances in micron units (important in our sector)

• generation and management of simple visits to complex sections
• generation of filters (all, raw pieces, holes, holes to be measured etc.)
• generation of processing and surface treatment information

advantages in processes:

• less risk of false interpretations
• correct information between 3d <-> 2d
• optimization and improvement of product development process
• a single source of information with all necessary information Yeah. 3d master
• intelligence in 3d is also reusable in other software

risks / changes / inconvenience

• different way to search for information (more long? or just a question of habit?)
• in case of data exchange with the induced how to manage the versions (there is no longer a design in a dossier)
• do suppliers agree to use a new format / viewer 3d for example step (currently use a 2d)?
• in technical meetings on what to rely on to discuss details of a model if the design is no longer there?
• alcuni bugs
• some improvements -> announced to ds
• ergonomics -> many clicks to manipulate our models

summary:

• 3d master is not an instrument The process of goods a philosophy to extend entirely to the whole company
• 3d master does not mean building without drawing
• fta is a tool, which allows to introduce the philosophy 3d master

a meeting with the business will still take place to decide whether to go to the next stage “poc”.

I gladly await your comments and suggestions.

to the next update;-)

 

[Max-C]

Hello everyone,
I wanted to update the post with our latest information.

the project consists of three phases: presales -> poc (prof of concept) / golive
we are currently in the preset phase, here are our impressions:
benefits fta:

• with the fta module we can recover quotas and tolerances from the sketcher (if these are present)
• avoid edition errors
• a single possible quotation (no redundancies of quotas)
• no redundancy with geometric tolerances
• fta shares are connected directly to geometry
• an intelligence allows selection only plausible tolerances (in this case fta guides us and advises in the choice of tolerances avoiding errors)
• calculation of average quotas tolerances in micron units (important in our sector)

• generation and management of simple visits to complex sections
• generation of filters (all, raw pieces, holes, holes to be measured etc.)
• generation of processing and surface treatment information

advantages in processes:

• less risk of false interpretations
• correct information between 3d <-> 2d
• optimization and improvement of product development process
• a single source of information with all necessary information Yeah. 3d master
• intelligence in 3d is also reusable in other software

risks / changes / inconvenience

• different way to search for information (more long? or just a question of habit?)
• in case of data exchange with the induced how to manage the versions (there is no longer a design in a dossier)
• do suppliers agree to use a new format / viewer 3d for example step (currently use a 2d)?
• in technical meetings on what to rely on to discuss details of a model if the design is no longer there?
• alcuni bugs
• some improvements -> announced to ds
• ergonomics -> many clicks to manipulate our models

summary:

• 3d master is not an instrument The process of goods a philosophy to extend entirely to the whole company
• 3d master does not mean building without drawing
• fta is a tool, which allows to introduce the philosophy 3d master

a meeting with the business will still take place to decide whether to go to the next stage “poc”.

I gladly await your comments and suggestions.

to the next update;-)

As I have already written in another discussion, I know that I am already arming myself to create rules on standardizing 3D quotas with a view to retiring the table.
In my opinion you are still taking an important step but the risk that you run is that (if you do the details in external workshops) some crank the nose not to have the classic sheet (of course it also depends on what you plan).
I miss something: how would you manage the revisions? would you keep the steps and change the model or would you keep both models by making a pack & go copy?

 

[falonef]

hi max-c,
regarding the management of revisions, the idea would be to modify the 3d master file then in our case .catpart and recreate a new step.

if the supplier wants to manage the various versions of the steps is free to do so.
for us only counts the 3d master.

Besides converting to .sxt step seems that you can manage the changes and versions.
the .sxt step format should also recognize the pmi (product manufacturing information) the so-called quotas, information etc. inserted in the 3d necessary for relating a model.

Unfortunately I do not have a .sxt step license available to test it but later I will have this possibility.

 

[Max-C]

hi max-c,
regarding the management of revisions, the idea would be to modify the 3d master file then in our case .catpart and recreate a new step.

so if you would like to resume the previous review you should resume the 3d master remodeling it so as to report it as the .stp and to make them any changes right?

Besides converting to .sxt step seems that you can manage the changes and versions.
the .sxt step format should also recognize the pmi (product manufacturing information) the so-called quotas, information etc. inserted in the 3d necessary for relating a model.

Unfortunately I do not have a .sxt step license available to test it but later I will have this possibility.

interesting the .sxt I never heard of it. I know that a problem that you had at first was the conversion of the 3d model listed in a neutral file extension. I will be informed if the cads I use already have the possibility to move to this extension.

 

[falonef]

no, we only manage the versions of the 3d master so just reload it and convert it into step.
but in the end we will not do this job, it will be the task of the supplier to manage the versions steps received.

the sxt license is what you need in the cat to export the .catpart in step with information, annotations etc. 3d.

the new standard step format instead of supporting all information is 242: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/iso_10303.

use nx il software dovrebbe supportare le pmi (product and manufacturing information) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/product_and_manufacturing_information and therefore the 3d master philosophy is applicable.
I just read it in the siemens flyer.

 

[TECNOMODEL]

very interesting.
will it also apply to pmes? in which time?

exists already a format that can be used with any cad in which to export geometries, tolerances, materials etc.?

 

[falonef]

very interesting.
will it also apply to pmes? in which time?

exists already a format that can be used with any cad in which to export geometries, tolerances, materials etc.?

you are the pmi the strong point of philosophy 3d master.

the neutral format that supports the various cax is step 242.
- - - updated - - - -I just created a picoclo survey at the top of the post.
I am curious to see your answers ;-)

 

[TECNOMODEL]

therefore every cad should be able to export in this format?

we use inventor, in export formats there is only step.

Does anyone know if autodesk already uses this format?

I would like to know more, where can I find info about this method?

 

[falonef]

you need to know if the current version of invetor uses step 242 or if it is expected in the future.

then you should find someone who sends you a step 242 file created by a cax file with annotations, tolerances etc.

 

[Max-C]

what I know is that the iso was blocked to rule also because it was difficult to insert in a 3d model also materials etc. Apparently something moved. I'll tell you about step 242 then.
nx I imagined it as high fascai; My doubt is the average cads such as solidworks and inventor.. .

it will be interesting to see what the .igs will do at this point. .

 

[TECNOMODEL]

I checked on the site iso, the norm was issued in December 2014.

 

[zeigs]

on a couple of occasions I sent to 3d suppliers with pmi quotas using a pdf 3d (use solid edge st5)
has the big advantage of being able to be displayed on any pc equipped with acrobat reader recent

 

[Max-C]

I checked on the site iso, the norm was issued in December 2014.

can you give us the link?:smile:

 

[TECNOMODEL]

can you give us the link?:smile:

http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=57620