that 3d choose?

[rickcick]

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and hope to write in the right place. . .
My problem is as follows: we have to buy a 3d cad in the company, having no experience on it, using always autocad lt 2d, I absolutely do not know what to choose.
heavy carpentry design and some mechanical assemblies of particulars (type ball screws with castor motor in the head that move biella etc...), our business are induction furnaces for foundries. for now they recommended me rhino, but I don't know... What do you tell me?

 

[mariuss.r]

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and hope to write in the right place. . .
My problem is as follows: we have to buy a 3d cad in the company, having no experience on it, using always autocad lt 2d, I absolutely do not know what to choose.
heavy carpentry design and some mechanical assemblies of particulars (type ball screws with castor motor in the head that move biella etc...), our business are induction furnaces for foundries. for now they recommended me rhino, but I don't know... What do you tell me?

try to follow this discussion, it can be that in revenues of useful information
http://www.cad3d.it/forum1/showthread.php?t=20867&highlight=cad+carpenteria

 

[re_solidworks]

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and hope to write in the right place. . .
My problem is as follows: we have to buy a 3d cad in the company, having no experience on it, using always autocad lt 2d, I absolutely do not know what to choose.
heavy carpentry design and some mechanical assemblies of particulars (type ball screws with castor motor in the head that move biella etc...), our business are induction furnaces for foundries. for now they recommended me rhino, but I don't know... What do you tell me?

careful that the software of the discussion that you reported are specific to classic carpenters and in mechanics are not at ease.
convenience depends on the type of carpentry you go to develop.
If the prevalence is for the benefit of profile structures you may have an advantage with appropriate software, otherwise if the prevalence is of sheet metal, perhaps bent, with a mechanical cad you may find yourself better.
between the various mechanics mark you solidworks, inventor, solidedge (average band) or high-end proes. You could also rate nx or caia, but I think the costs are much higher.
describe your work a little better, that is: are the axioms great? about how many components? What are you looking for in 3d?
the cads I have listed are almost all parametric, would you also evaluate a contextual?

 

[paolino]

Hi.
as much as a rhino estimator, if you use it for carpentry and a bit of mechanics, better a solidworks cad or inventor.
(unless you think you use the cad in a very occasional way, then rhino allows you to do things in a 3d environment with low investment both in licenses and in learning, it is certainly not its strong... )

a curiosity: how did you get the suggestion?
Hi.

 

[rickcick]

thanks to all for the interest, I try to better describe my work.
What design are small mechanical systems, consisting of 50, maximum 200 details (including bolts and seals!)... I need to have a library of mechanical details to recall and mount in my set and to give each of these a movement just to verify that all functions without interference... I would also like to have the possibility to change a pin and that automatically change the bronze and the lever... but I can also design sheet metal structures with very particular profiles, funnels or hoppers connected to tippers/boxes for containment of materials etc... or other layout of plants where I have to show the customer where we will go to place our machinery. . This is more or less the use I would make of... I have recommended rhino especially for the low cost... but I would not want to end that "the less spends more spends", also because then I can't make it buy another!!!!
So forward with the advice!:finger: they are in vs hands:biggrin:

 

[maxopus]

rhino is absolutely not suitable for your indications/expectations.
I don't think it has the features that have the mechanical cads for the development of sheet metal, as well as not being a parametric cad you can't set any conditional or adaptive processing (change the pin and change the size of the connected components) or perform simulations on the cinematisms.
I don't think he's got a full board like the cad we're talking about.
according to me the cads that do for you are of the so-called midrange category and as at the same price you would take the foundation of creo (pro/e) I would not discard it a priori.
if then the price factor is straight (in the sense that you do not want to spend even 5-6000 euros for a decent cad, it would be ridiculous for a company, but I realize that we are in Italy and the mental quality of the average entrepreneur ...) also consider spaceclaim and alibre.

 

[rickcick]

but then I was just taking a crab!
Calm down, guys, nothing's still lost... I need you more and more...
could you tell me the most suitable software for my needs (take into account the limited budgets or if you can be honest, the short arms of my bosses...)?

 

[maxopus]

but then I was just taking a crab!
Calm down, guys, nothing's still lost... I need you more and more...
could you tell me the most suitable software for my needs (take into account the limited budgets or if you can be honest, the short arms of my bosses...)?

rhino is not an application for product development. It is very used in the field of presentations and renderings, by jewelry manufacturers, for which it is not necessary the management of the sheets and the putting into the table is completely negligible, as well as the management of tolerances and surface finishes (species typical of the real mechanics).

the cad midrange are:
create parametric (ex pro/e) in the foundation configuration (with the quality of high-end cads).
creo direct (ex osd)
solidedge
solidworks
inventor
with these cad the budget for the purchase of the license is about 5-6000 euros.

then there are the cads placed lower and therefore cheaper:
spaceclaim
alibre
here the budget is decidedly lower (under typically 2000 euros) but, be aware that they are not comparable for completeness and maturity to the above cad.

 

[re_solidworks]

quoto maxopus, let it lose rhino that is not its sector.
I add that in the 2012 package you can take inventor (only without autocad) to just over 4000 euros to the price list, so you would have a midrange at a low cost.
if you go to the product dedign suite 2012 (the one with autocad mechanical, 3dsmax, etc...) the price list is 7250.
solidworks base coast 6500

embarrassing the positioning of maxopus clay among the midranges.... with the evolution to creo declassified the cad? :biggrin:

 

[maxopus]

embarrassing the positioning of maxopus clay among the midranges.... with the evolution to creo declassified the cad? :biggrin:

hi king, ptc has for many years attacked the midrange market with the foundation of pro/e.
commercially located with the same prices, technically we speak of a developed cad much better ... I agree with you :biggrin:

 

[rickcick]

thanks guys for the precious info, I hope that with 'this prices still manages to strci inside....:frown:
in all ways I let lose rhino...

other advice? Do they need courses?
I think I will evaluate inventor(without autocad, although I don't know what it means) and solid works... What do you say?

 

[Fulvio Romano]

I don't think that's the case.
rhino is an excellent program, but it serves for modeling style surfaces. In your case, it wouldn't be good at all.

my advice is to buy the basic version of alibre (200€, permanent license and there is a retailer also here on the forum). despite the price is good software. you work for a year, and then with experience baggage (which you now have) on your real needs, decide whether to switch to the professional version of alibre, whether to buy inventor, or the full suite of catia (snake!)

the problem of alibre is that it is little cured the part of graphic support, so with particularly heavy assemblies can be slow. but with assemblies of 200 pieces (so micro-assiemi) flies that is a beauty.

 

[enri]

provided that the most suitable sw as it was said are the cad midrange, it is not at all true that rhino does not have those possibilities, just use the right plugins, rhinowork for cinematics and constraints, and rhino parametrics for parametric modeling. not to underestimate the perfect integration with spaceclaim. what does not do the first does the second (see sheet and direct modeling pushed). all at a low cost.

 

[Tequila]

I don't think that's the case.
rhino is an excellent program, but it serves for modeling style surfaces. In your case, it wouldn't be good at all.

my advice is to buy the basic version of alibre (200€, permanent license and there is a retailer also here on the forum). despite the price is good software. you work for a year, and then with experience baggage (which you now have) on your real needs, decide whether to switch to the professional version of alibre, whether to buy inventor, or the full suite of catia (snake!)

the problem of alibre is that it is little cured the part of graphic support, so with particularly heavy assemblies can be slow. but with assemblies of 200 pieces (so micro-assiemi) flies that is a beauty.

the basic version of alibre seems to me not to make the sections of the details... Do you understand?

 

[Fulvio Romano]

the basic version of alibre seems to me not to make the sections of the details... Do you understand?

You mean section 2d? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I don't use much 2d.

 

[Tequila]

thanks guys for the precious info, I hope that with 'this prices still manages to strci inside....:frown:
in all ways I let lose rhino...

other advice? Do they need courses?
I think I will evaluate inventor(without autocad, although I don't know what it means) and solid works... What do you say?

by force of things you will need a course (usually made by retailers) so when you will deal with retailers to make you anticipate cost of cad etc. keep in mind the things that I will go to list:

1) try to explain well and actually show him what you do and the problems you encounter in doing them and if they have the chance to make ad hoc demos.
2) in addition to the price of the cad for 1 license (if more than 1 the price should go down...) add the costs for the course + possible annual cost of after-sales assistance
3) also indicate the necessary hardware, ie these cads (almost all) to work well require workstations with dedicated graphics cards and not pcs from shopping centers. . of course they also work with those but if you have visualization problems or other usually assistance does not respond

more than anything else you should tell us the maximum budget you would want to spend, because according to me for a midrange type inventor-solidworks-solidedge in basic version for everyone, between license-pc-corsi you should stay around 6-8000 euros

 

[Tequila]

You mean section 2d? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I don't use much 2d.

Yes, in Tables 2d it seems not possible to make sections as in the assemblings the list bom... but I go to memory and I don't know if I'm shooting a cabbage (of course I'm talking for the 200 euro version).
Hi.

 

[Matteo]

I would stand or on creoparametric-proe or solidworks (the first is more scalable up in case of need).
spaceclaim is an alternative if you are looking for something not "feature based" (regions as with autocad and relatively faster to learn) but associative and (to know how to use) parametric (about 30% less than the previous two).

 

[re_solidworks]

for solidworks and inventor you may try to save courses and use internal or third-party tutorials. are made very well and to learn the basics enough and advance. then, at the limit you feel the dealer for targeted days on your problems and maybe with 2 days you have enough.
In the case of inventor you can also find books like those of edoardo pruneri and with 50 € you can learn the basics of the cad.

 

[rickcick]

thank you for all the many advices.... I attend... to today I contacted the inventor and solidworks dealer, they came to visit me and have widely praised their product as the most sold, more complete etc... in the first analysis and despite the demonstrations, for me and my colleague, it is very difficult to choose. . economically speaking I have not yet arrived at the bottom of the pot, I have not yet treated... according to you, who would you choose and why? What are the most important differences?