rickcick
Guest
Yes, casting ovens. . .
Parametric_Ozzy
Guest
exact, more and more often there are occasions of return without having to buy everything.:finger:
then it would be necessary to extend the speech, not only to the cad side and here aim, ne swx,ne inventor are up to.
But now if you're on those two, and you don't have any more time and no need to explain...:frown:
rickcick
Guest
Well, don't leave me like that. Tell me what this is about. :
maxopus
Guest
Well what it is, but of pro/e (creo parametric) and of what else, the father of all the parametric cads:
Matteo
Guest
Surely (knowing ozzy) it is not only a question of proposing a cad, but of "treat" altogether the management of information (geometric and not) of the project.
If you have a little time (15ggs are not very few) I suggest you pay attention to ozzy: its demo is worth a course:finger:
Parametric_Ozzy
Guest
It is not my interest to confuse you anymore ideas and I am not an expert in casting ovens that among other things is only the category, then differentiated by various types of furnaces as you certainly know that they depend on the type of material to be treated, I do not have these details and you are not even required to tell me them but one thing I know:
1. is a machine consisting of mechanical elements and refractory materials
2. has a combustion plant
3. has a control system
In summary, I'm telling you what I meant, leaving for a moment the part falls:
According to the new machine directive in force since 29/12/2009 the manufacturer is required to ensure that a risk assessment is carried out to establish the safety and health requirements that concern the machine and must be designed and built taking into account the risk assessment.
therefore you enter a world of quality and reliability quite complex, but that is strictly in contact with the design part, there are software on the market that preview the analysis of risks, the analysis of reliability of the predictive type (project mechanism), that provide ordinary and mandatory maintenance plans as well as manual, that verify the sustainability and the echo compatibility of the raw materials used through the analysis of the distinct bases, etc., etc.
cito ptc because I clearly know the products, in 2009 acquired the relex software for analysis fmea (failure mode effect alalysis) , fracas (failure reporting analysis and corrective action), but also insight now called windchill compliance, which allows to manage and monitor the environmental compliance of the product, some customers for example ask for the creation of reports such as reach,rohs,elv, cpsia,
all these beautiful software should be part of a plm suite, but here I don't even want to enter the speech otherwise we dive, it was just to tell you that the cad is just a small towel and buy it closing the eyes and without knowing what the market already asks us today and will ask us more and more the future, it is dangerous, you will have to spend a lot more money in the future to manage all the other things that are down...
When talking about mid range or high end is here the difference, it's the suite... certainly not the cad, so don't rush, it's always bad advice...
greetings
1. is a machine consisting of mechanical elements and refractory materials
2. has a combustion plant
3. has a control system
In summary, I'm telling you what I meant, leaving for a moment the part falls:
According to the new machine directive in force since 29/12/2009 the manufacturer is required to ensure that a risk assessment is carried out to establish the safety and health requirements that concern the machine and must be designed and built taking into account the risk assessment.
therefore you enter a world of quality and reliability quite complex, but that is strictly in contact with the design part, there are software on the market that preview the analysis of risks, the analysis of reliability of the predictive type (project mechanism), that provide ordinary and mandatory maintenance plans as well as manual, that verify the sustainability and the echo compatibility of the raw materials used through the analysis of the distinct bases, etc., etc.
cito ptc because I clearly know the products, in 2009 acquired the relex software for analysis fmea (failure mode effect alalysis) , fracas (failure reporting analysis and corrective action), but also insight now called windchill compliance, which allows to manage and monitor the environmental compliance of the product, some customers for example ask for the creation of reports such as reach,rohs,elv, cpsia,
all these beautiful software should be part of a plm suite, but here I don't even want to enter the speech otherwise we dive, it was just to tell you that the cad is just a small towel and buy it closing the eyes and without knowing what the market already asks us today and will ask us more and more the future, it is dangerous, you will have to spend a lot more money in the future to manage all the other things that are down...
When talking about mid range or high end is here the difference, it's the suite... certainly not the cad, so don't rush, it's always bad advice...
greetings
Parametric_Ozzy
Guest
thank you matteo too kind!
cacciatorino
Guest
a melting oven is definitely a set of thousands of components. So be careful about this, because you might find yourself struggling with management when the aid starts to become impressive.
re_solidworks
Guest
This is certainly true. but which cad allows you to model huge and very complex assemblies without simplifying them? At one point everyone "stands" and has to resort to "subterfuges" of modeling.
that then there is a special package for the modeling of advanced assemblies means that ptc has traced the road that will have to travel its customers, while others are limited to less dedicated functions.
in solidworks you arrive with a method of modeling targeted, curated and not for everyone.
the same applies (presumption) to the other mid. if you open a set of 200,000 cmponents sit also proes, nx and catia, don't worry about this, I have no doubt.
With regard to solidworks solutions, it has simulation packages for calculations, it is the former cosmos package that should have everything an engineer needs to do his job.
This is another package that costs 25,000 euros of purchase and 4800 year of maintenance (to list) in the premium version.
As for pdm there is pdm works enterprise and there are many products from third parties.
Now I am not informed about the solutions for the demands of the norms quoted by ozzy, but if you go to the solidworks site and look at the partners who produce packages on solidworks you really find everything.
even if I have a proe license I have never deepened the use of this cad over a basic use, customers who require it do not make particularly complex products and I have never severely tastato the wrist to this software, but the opinion that I have done is that in some ways the difference compared to a mid feels and feels to have greater potential when modeling becomes complex but a little at the expense of the operating speed that turns out a little slower.
Basically, as I have done other times, I think it is productive to switch to a tool as a proe when a midrange is not enough for you, if you need a midrange, I recommend that.
an example: if you need to model boxes for change or differential for the automotive do not even think about it and take off, do not even evaluate a midrange.
If you do carpentry or machines where you do not have to design extremely complex castings take a mid.
rickcick
Guest
But nobody breaks a spear for inventor? to what I have drawn from the various posts, all tendentially indicate me sw... why, probably why inventor is not so known?
However thank you for the advice you give me, consider that to get a 3d in the company I am making mortal jumps, many believe that there is no need for a 3d, since from now on you can very well go ahead with autocad lt...
However thank you for the advice you give me, consider that to get a 3d in the company I am making mortal jumps, many believe that there is no need for a 3d, since from now on you can very well go ahead with autocad lt...
rickcick
Guest
We don't do all those studies... we are a small company that has been going on for 50 years... Consider that 4 years ago, when I was hired, they still used lt'95... I had to insist on updating him... It's only recently that, having found me in the design of a complex machine, a set of different mechanical details, I noticed the time it took every time to change an organ that interacted with others and that having had a 3d parametric, all this would have been done in less time... and not only, for sw or inventor you also have to buy efficient workstations... this means that postage spending will be around 10000euro... So if I were wrong and the 3d after you don't use it as you should, I would see my head rolling down the slope...
That's why I have to stay with my feet on the ground looking for a 3d that costs the right, that is parametric, that has modules for the carpentry, the sheet, that gives me the possibility to build aces, that it goes well for the mechanics, that you can make films, that you can extrapolate pictures of the details, that it is commercial and not niche... I mean...
That's why I have to stay with my feet on the ground looking for a 3d that costs the right, that is parametric, that has modules for the carpentry, the sheet, that gives me the possibility to build aces, that it goes well for the mechanics, that you can make films, that you can extrapolate pictures of the details, that it is commercial and not niche... I mean...
Tequila
Guest
Although I don't know any of 2 as use, I'm also willing to suggest solidworks, perhaps because it's more mature than inventor, born as 3d long before the latter.
here is the same speech I made yesterday with on the thread of the pdm... Unfortunately there are still companies that go ahead with drawings made on the tecnigraph or worse still hand on cheese paper without codes or other. you who use acad lt are already more fortunate, but long go if you do not have the appropriate tools will be very difficult to be competitive with competition when you will have to remake a new project starting from an existing one in a short time. Obviously it's not your fault and you're already doing a lot to improve.
Parametric_Ozzy
Guest
creo parametric costs 6390 euro a list and the hardware is the same as you would buy with inv or swx.
the difference is that if one tomorrow the needs of the small company change you are ready to face them without particular problems, the cad grows together with you and adapts, you are not the ones that you have to adapt to the cad.
I gave you only a broader view, since your head in case of error could roll, you should make a much more eye-catching choice and not just stick to a parametric cad speech and point.
rickcick
Guest
Well, I don't know absolutely create parametric... I see if I can contact a supplier in my area...
stupid question: all these 3d then create a .dwg, right?
stupid question: all these 3d then create a .dwg, right?
Tequila
Guest
in addition to what told by colleagues about the benefits of an initial expense well studied for years to come, if your superiors in case of flop want your head on a silver tray, let it lose everything.
here on the forum you can get all the information you want and answers to your doubts. that of the cad in itself well or badly obtained it, I could also advise you to make a quote/demo of solid edge that is not less than inventor or swx. others may advise you caia or nx with all the extra things they have and do compared to others, but the prices would be higher.
I recommend you to take a few more days (if possible), feel your superiors if they can give you info refresh any future expectations... in money if they have in mind to innovate and renew themselves or if it is good to stay as they are.
I'm pointing out you're going to put your proposals black on white, obviously marking the time that they need to take to regime. it is not that just installed the cad and did the courses you already have everything ready to start 100%, you will also have to convert the 2d files in 3d, recreate the archive, if not of everything, at least the parts that are always or almost used, value well the minimum data to manage and this takes away time, that for my vision is time invested for the company's improvement, while for many dators/superiors it is only time lost and cost more.
when you get this information written you bring it to your superiors so with hand data (and not only beautiful words) they will decide to do. Whether positive or negative your head will remain attached to your body.
You're not doing anything anymore. Good luck:
here on the forum you can get all the information you want and answers to your doubts. that of the cad in itself well or badly obtained it, I could also advise you to make a quote/demo of solid edge that is not less than inventor or swx. others may advise you caia or nx with all the extra things they have and do compared to others, but the prices would be higher.
I recommend you to take a few more days (if possible), feel your superiors if they can give you info refresh any future expectations... in money if they have in mind to innovate and renew themselves or if it is good to stay as they are.
I'm pointing out you're going to put your proposals black on white, obviously marking the time that they need to take to regime. it is not that just installed the cad and did the courses you already have everything ready to start 100%, you will also have to convert the 2d files in 3d, recreate the archive, if not of everything, at least the parts that are always or almost used, value well the minimum data to manage and this takes away time, that for my vision is time invested for the company's improvement, while for many dators/superiors it is only time lost and cost more.
when you get this information written you bring it to your superiors so with hand data (and not only beautiful words) they will decide to do. Whether positive or negative your head will remain attached to your body.
You're not doing anything anymore. Good luck:
maxopus
Guest
Of course, export dwg is a standard of all mechanical cads.
Tequila
Guest
all cad well or bad export to dwg/dxf
Matteo
Guest
I make a reasoning from service provider (structural calculation), having among my clients many that are in the same situation. Clearly I address you, but these are topics that you should bring to your leaders:
1) If you have to calculate one of your facilities (e.g. customer request) you should go through a 3d model. if I leave from a 3d of any cad to work with spaceclaim the cost of processing of geoemtria is "x". we can work from a 2d: it multiplies on average by a factor 2 or 3. the same applies to any other activities related to 3d.
2) How much does an oven cost? how much does an expense of 10000€ affect? ?
3) how much is 1h processing of 2d boards for changing an existing model according to the specifications of another customer? with a valid cad3d, the sound boards are ssociative and the times are abbreviated very much.
Parametric_Ozzy
Guest
If I hadn't understood it yet as well as member of this forum I am a dealer of creo parametric.
Mr.Rio
Guest
reading this post is how to relive the 'my' history of the passage from 2d to 3d!
practically the same situation: micro family-run company, hand-made designs on greased and bisunti sheets (until the passage to 2d) and when there were no drawings of any kind meant that somewhere there was a template or a template or sample to be copied every time!
I would say that the passage sheet ->2d was well digested at the time, when I arrived in 2002.
the difficulty was to move to 3d, explaining what were the priceless advantages in the face of an entirely acceptable expenditure: I have done more than a year of 'treatment' before I can buy proes.
at the beginning I was titubante and I said: "We don't need proes, we just need a mid-range." in fact for us a mid-range would have been enough, but you want to put
.to convince me of the choice was the demo 'dedicated', organized in four and four eight, that only 'those' of proe have proposed to me: I highly recommend this road, whatever your choice.
price question: at the end of the negotiations the software package+hardware+pro course had a comparable cost (around 10,000) and in a case less than that of other mid-range, therefore there were no excuses!
ps: we produce machines and the main processing are those of medium carpentry, mechanical machining, sheet and assembly.
This is my experience I hope you need it and good choice!
greetings