do you know cadmatic?

[telecad]

marcobi thanks for the answer.

small clarification:"She obviously wants a sw that "scratching the button" produces an isometric to be delivered to the customer. "I don't want anything. I have just expressed my opinion that with pdms and pds (in my opinion) we work better, and set up according to various customers you get a great result (by crushing the button as you say...). if other sw behave like this to deny it?"However, she escapes that the philosophy of cadmatic is profoundly different from that of pds or pdms" r: no that I do not escape, indeed I will tell you that you are perfectly right, why I rebasic as from me written "However, we cannot say that companies opting (costs permitting) for pdms and pds do not make a great choice. "Saluted.

 

[MarcoBi]

So to conclude this yearly discussion, you say that the price much higher than the other sw is justified because you should not use the pipe environment to extract the issometrici? I'm sorry, but why did your company come up with cadmatic? maybe just for the price? or why perhaps you understood the ease of use, the advantage of the eborowser, the ease of customization, the minimum hardware required (I also use it on an old laptop), the sharing of the projects via the internet without problems, the dynamic interference checking, the possibility to define geometries own for each piping component without the rigid bond of a morphology imposed by the software house, the possibility of importing and exporting the model and file 2d
I opened this discussion and would like to, now that we have clarified that the isometrics in cadmatic must pass through the pipe module (that is to the isogen module for the other prg) to be managed to the best, I would like to invite you to highlight from the modeling point of view any sw or, if you have others, defects from you found so to make this discussion enlarged to all interested.
See you soon.

 

[telecad]

kind marcobi,
I'm not here in the afternoon. Do you mind if I answer this evening when I get home?
Thank you, later.
greetings

 

[numero1]

If you allow, I'd like to add something.

the pdf that I posted as e.g. comes from pds; pds is perfectly customizable for n users and n situations, i.e. work/committee.

I don't say that I know how to do it or that it's easy, I say I'm sure of this.
in fact the ns. admin of the era has made the .... to succeed, and it took a lot of time as I have already written.

and it works well (pds) also, and I would like to emphasize it, on the cartiers .... I made 3 and the third was a nonsense after the first so and the second mass much better.
just have the time and the ability to set it.... and pds is quite absurd in this :frown: , absurd but feasible. :smile:
I never faced the food field instead.
Of course I repeat, all this in the face of a lot of work of the admin.
but..... once customizations remain, and when you have several often it is enough to use one of those old (with new customers) and away without touching anything.

the advantage of this customization or pre-production or setting or .......... Call it a little as you want.
the advantage I said is that after you snap the famous box and puf....
similarly with pdms, indeed the default set of pdms is better (according to me) than that of pds.

personally I think it is better (when possible) an organization + push at the beginning to avoid touching after.

So I can't understand why cadmatic doesn't have to do it; and I wonder if cadmatic really has an easy + customization?
In fact if it is + easy because not to set it adequately at the beginning, possibly aging it in course of work?

So I wonder what the usefulness of the pipe module is?
go to retouch the iso, even with a dedicated tool seems to me an operation without sense and to avoid, except special cases.

and I know him well...
In fact, since the ns. admin used different time to reach the optimus for every new job/type, unfortunately when the first revisions came out or sent them away like this, or they were retouched in autocad.
but attention !!! were still readable even without being retouched.in fact all the basic prints of pds and pdms that I have seen, that is to say without any particular settaggio were however better than those that posted telecad.

in conclusion: I think it would be better to have a first acceptable print by default.
and obviously that's what he's looking for, and he can't find.


such "acceptable" extraction must take placendipendentemente from the sw used and, only and only after how he wrote telecad, eventually refine the sketches with the dedicated tools (pee in this case) if one must/wan do it.

greetings

p.s.
cadmatic will cost less and will have many facilities ok but if the extraction of iso is this I am confused

 

[telecad]

kind number one,
thanks for the surgery,
I'm on my way, and I'm answering from the phone, I'll add more, I say, 'cause I don't say he took my mouth off, but he anticipated me and exhaustively. thank you also because you have centered in full what I am trying to explain from more post. thanks again, later.
greetings

 

[numero1]

Please, I just wrote what I think having even a little experience. :
I just wanted to point out that when I write about autocad I meant autocad and/or microstation.
the extraction of the files in pds takes place in the dgn format.
Hi.

 

[MarcoBi]

what says number1 is shared but as always happens a bit of part. I have been able to use pds for a long time and while remaining of the idea that it is an excellent program (although now a little dated) its management is not at the reach of everyone and for all I mean also for all companies. certain companies with a few hundred employees can afford a group of administrators who manage databases and customizations, a medium-small company not.
Surely number1 will know that the iso extracted with pds also have limitations, cited only for example the number of sheets (i.e. the fractionation of the iso on several sheets) that can change if you add or remove components on the line with good peace of the workers who find themselves with the numbers that jump to each revision. It's just an example and it doesn't change my opinion towards pds but it's a juicy that in a large company has not been resolved. idem for post extraction management on iso. In any case, to return to cadmatic, the pipe module does not exit from the prestidigitator cylinder but, as to say, it is the "standard" module that the sw house created to manage and emetter the isometrics. I would like this to be clear as I would like it to be clear that a skilled user devotes a few minutes for each iso for its extraction and these minutes are less and less than those that a pds user puts to interpret and find the error that prevents the generation of the iso with pds-isogen.
So, apart from the typhus for us sw or for another, you don't talk to me about pds like the miracle of computer science. I am willing to support that together with pdms are currently market leaders but as everyone knows well the reasons for this success are not related to their use but to many factors not least that of having been pioneers in this sector.
so to conclude and waiting for further comments on cadmatic, in no sw you "scratch the button and exit the sketch" and in many cases it is also difficult to understand why the sketch does not come out. in cadmatic the sketch comes out and is managed with pipes that allows total control without particular difficulties.
See you soon.

 

[numero1]

Well, of course I'm a bit of a part. I've never used cadmatics.
As to the fact that the management of pds is not within the reach of everyone seemed to have been clear, it is not point.

from which I should deduce that cadmatic management is within reach of all But Telecad doesn't think so.

the limitations of the number of sheets are also cadmatic.... if I'm not mistaken you were rotten who advised telecad to break the hysus in + sheets.
that the numberings then can jump to each revision is + than normal, it is part of the normal workflow of a shop.

As much as I love programming and/or work organization, I have never seen and never say a salesman with 10 sheets, in revision 0, and finish with 10 sheets at the last revision.
This is not programming .... it would be stupid and counterproductive to limit the number of sheets.

If you can keep the same if you don't change, with good peace of the yard.
otherwise extremizing this reasoning we abolish directly also revisions, the yard will still be + happy, builds directly with one revision (zero).

then if you can't do what you have to do, if the lines crash into the structure, if the tube flanges don't get married with the equipment nozzles, if .... :frown:

it is true that the extraction of pds does not plant...... but when you plant bitter cabbage, and it's a mess to find the isogen error.

pds is a miracle of computer science if compared to the period in which he came out, and in fact being a pioneer has conquered positions that he still maintains today.
However now pds went to the attic replaced by sp3d, if cadmatic wants to kick him and pdms will have to necessarily review his iso extraction policy.

pulling tubes first with autocad then with micro and then...... I think I can say the following.

I must be able to crush the button and extract the sketch, the possible management of the iso must be done upstream, in my opinion it is foolish to do it downstream.
If one wants to do it, but the sketch must be able to go out at the first blow with minimum requirements.
that currently telecad does not have....
That's what I think.

greetings

 

[MarcoBi]

dear number1, I do not know what you understood from the discussion but obviously, regarding cadmatic and the pipe module, very little.
the sketch extracted in cadmatic is "worked" in pipe for:
- change the fractionation/n° of sheets to facilitate reading
- reproportionate the isometric also locally to facilitate reading
- vary the orientation on the 3 floors to facilitate reading
- move the labels that may be overcome to facilitate reading
- print the iso.
These operations are the normal procedure of cadmatic use and as already mentioned, in many cases you do not do and when you do take a few minutes to iso.
Obviously if the user refuses to use pipe can safely buy a pds or pdms license and recover the lost time.
I think every other consideration is superfluous but, in case you know that I typhu juventus and if you are a milanist we can engage in a debate on this subject.
See you soon.

 

[numero1]

Well, of course I understood little not to use cadmatic.
but it is a question of philosophy of work, of modus operandi....

I'm happy for you. :finger:
I repeat that normal procedure for me it is to do everything that is possible upstream to extract the isus and stop.

if cadmatic by normal procedure means processing with the pipe module after having extracted the Iso well .......... I don't think we are. :frown:
if then telecad (or any other user) wants to embellish his sketch after ..... come in as well.

It is not the correct procedure according to me, I would never do it unless it is forced as it is telecad.
I'm not going to open a "religion" war.

Hi.

 

[MarcoBi]

the problem is that unfortunately many get used to the idea that there is the sw that "choose the button and exit the sketch". I have been working in this field for 35 years and have not yet found it but I admit and write that isogen is the world std for the production of isometrics and that instead in cadmatic to obtain good isometrics you should use pipes that is not an optional but welcome the module specially conceived. Different philosophies? I would say objectivity and intellectual honesty in declaring sw predictions and flaws based on their own experiences.

 

[MarcoBi]

if then telecad (or any other user) wants to embellish his sketch after ..... come in as well.

Hi.

not after, dear number1, during the extraction process.

 

[numero1]

the problem is that unfortunately many get used to the idea that there is the sw that "choose the button and exit the sketch". I have been working in this field for 35 years and have not yet found it but I admit and write that isogen is the world std for the production of isometrics and that instead in cadmatic to obtain good isometrics you should use pipes that is not an optional but welcome the module specially conceived. Different philosophies? I would say objectivity and intellectual honesty in declaring sw predictions and flaws based on their own experiences.

I just wrote that I close her here, but at the cost of contradicting me... .
I have no problem declaring sw predictions and flaws used by me.
in this case pds and now I think sp3d (if not changed) has the I'm fine to crush the famous box and....:biggrin:
There are obviously defects, starting from absurd management.

But I repeat, I found it on the contrary found it, pds/pdms are the famous sw that snaps the famous box and....
this in the face of a big/ huge work upstream from the admin.

so I see it as a different philosophy of work.

greetings

 

[numero1]

not after, dear number1, during the extraction process.

I don't know what you say.
But you should talk about it on telecad, not me.

And now I think/I think I can stop my mouth and close it here at least for me.
greetings

 

[telecad]

nice number 1
thank you for showing your opinions on this. precise that anyone else can safely add to the discussion: everyone can contribute... otherwise why are we in a forum?
kind marcobi, thank you for all your information about the added value that can make cadamtic to a company (maybe to yours, but at the moment to my no I repeat no and as I have already written, I trust everyone... but also of what I touch with hand). the more I read what he writes and the more I seem to read the posts of gricozzi...
marcobi, I give you an example to explain to you and other users my point of view
a) I go to buy a multifunction printer in a pc shop (so not at the mall) and tell the seller that I will make all the configurations. then I can't and complain. in this case the shopkeeper is right because he can tell me that the printer works great but I am not able to configure it well.

b) I go to buy a multifunction printer in a pc shop (so not at the mall) and tell the seller that I'm not a computer so I can't configure it. the trader tells me that wanting to do all of him, I'll just have to use it. then the printer works badly. I go to a forum to search for info about it and I find a seller who advertises his beautiful printer and one who says that I have one in the house that is fine and that recommends to set...configure...must do... I precise several times that I do not do the it and then I look for someone who is able to “configure” this printer because as it has been set is not in line with the needs. I ask therefore in the forum to the seller if he suggests me a good (but not a doctor), and to the atro if he can contact me with who put his hands on his printer since it works so well and if he defends it by sword treats. result? Picche, si picche because tuti and two: the printer here and the printer there... but neither one wrote that they know who to tell me. But I do nothing, count the numbers. Yes because all things work with numbers: numbers are the people of a dedicated team, numbers are the hours of work for a project, numbers are the expenses to be incurred and in numbers the psalm is expressed also the 2 minutes (falsely, they are not 2 minutes, but from 10 – if everything goes well – to rise) to pass in the pipe module are numbers that multiplied by the number of isometrics to be reset form other numbers that create another voice that in my opinion is called “standby standby standby” because if one has to put to make maneuvers on iso after the extraction according to me it is time lost, that it must be considered because it is included in the working hours.
Marcobi, I'm fine that you defend the cadmatic you use (and if it works so well, why not?) but from what you write I'm beginning to believe that your cognition of time is different from mine.
“dear number1, I do not know what you understood from the discussion but obviously, regarding cadmatic and the pipe module, very little.
the sketch extracted in cadmatic is "worked" in pipe for:
- change the fractionation/n° of sheets to facilitate reading”
re: operation over two minutes because you must first see how it has broken it...then every time you try to add or remove an object you have to regenerate the iso to see how it goes and so on until what you see seems the best result to lose as little time as possible in autocad and/or microstation to finish fixing it.
and this maneuver do it only because the object walks with its description in the meter,
if you add a hand object in autocad after you have to add the description of the material with more total amount and partial weight.

- reproportionate the isometric also locally to facilitate readingbut why do I have to reproportionately? because this sw does not keep the same
always proportions? ... more time.
- vary the orientation on the 3 floors to facilitate readingrsp: this of the loser point of view is a thing that can also present itself with other sw who, however, respond better precisely because they do not have a module for these operations.
- move the labels that may be overcome to facilitate readingand this is something I have not understood. is he unable to understand that he is putting a label on the other to cover it?
- print the iso.
re: after printing (this is what you do from me) you make the mark up in red that will then be marked with the highlighter as they settle in autocad and/or microstation.These operations are the normal procedure of cadmatic use and as already mentioned, in many cases you do not do and when you do take a few minutes to iso.vorrei capire questi a few minutes his expressions in numbers since my parents are already enough as time devoted only to an iso.
by number1 and marcobes: the time position of the pipe module compared to the extraction of the iso is found during or after, depends on what is meant by “extracting” of the iso. I explain: in cadmatic there is a tab where you make the extraction of the iso. just extract is sent to another module that is called pipe with which you can do all the maneuvers explained by me and marcobi. Now, if the isus is usable you could click on “export” thus generating the dwg. if not, you click “browse” and a screen appears with the iso where there are all the commands described above. When I write “setting the hysso after the extraction” I say well because I see the sketch, I realize that it is not and I pass to the pipe. However, since in the pipe you cannot have the iso to be fixed and another system first (such as in autocad) so that you can copy and paste and spread the propitiousities of one on the other speeding up the work and reducing to the minimum terms the time of stand by, then I prefer to extract and go immediately in autocad.
for marcobi instead the modification happens "during " because maybe for him "extracted" means already ready for the customer, so as long as he sees the iso (which was extracted if not as you see it?) in the pipe then it is still in process... extraction... boh do not know. math teaches us that changing the order of the abdends the result does not change: then this pipe before, during or after always time takes away.
to conclude that say... marcobi said: cadmatic works so...
...beato he that in the way the cadmatic works at least he works well...
at the end here you write and write but a good one with which to make contacts to make the cadmatic that I use equal to that of marcobi (on trust, without having ever seen his iso)... I did not find it. How am I with the cadmatic?
modeling is not Moroccan, you can work remotely, but the iso makes you waste time.

p.s.: “of course if the user refuses to use pipe can safely buy a pds or pdms license and recover the lost time”
Normally, it is the company that buys the sw and not the user. One works by means that are made available to him. the professional still manages to stay in the times of the roadmap inventing a way to reach the goal even if this is constantly undermined by any means that slow the race.

 

[telecad]

That said my impression on the cadmatic is one and that of marcobi another.. .
So we can change the subject for me.

 

[MarcoBi]

I'll wait for the next post.
only a small reflection on the programmes in general.
If you use pds for example, you will be able to utlize for orthogen or drawiz. both are programs that automatically realize a base of "put at the table" which is then adjusted and implemented by the user until the completion of the design.
Surely you can optimize, with some experience, the whole process in such a way as to minimize the subsequent interventions and gaining in productivity.
I think that a modeler like you will come to me to talk about production processes, times and costs but has not been involved in the definition of the purchase of the sw that you use.
as all sw have a minimum of experience to exploit its peculiarities and without doubt it is necessary to have the right approach, from sportsman and not from fan, to grasp how good each program can have and create its own workflow in the interest of greater productivity. :finger:

 

[numero1]

I don't think the subject will continue... :

At least by telecad, it seems almost obvious.
as to the fact that he was not consulted for the purchase of the sw the answer is simple.
I was consulted for the purchase of some of the sw I used in my working life?

Hi.

 

[MarcoBi]

the sketch extracted in cadmatic is "worked" in pipe for:
- change the fractionation/n° of sheets to facilitate reading[/B]”
re: operation over two minutes because you must first see how it has broken it...then every time you try to add or remove an object you have to regenerate the iso to see how it goes and so on until what you see seems the best result to lose as little time as possible in autocad and/or microstation to finish fixing it.
and this maneuver do it only because the object walks with its description in the meter,
if you add a hand object in autocad after you have to add the description of the material with more total amount and partial weight.
I see that confirms "the retouching" post extraction with autocad or microstation. over time you will understand that this is a mistake.

- reproportionate the isometric also locally to facilitate readingbut why do I have to reproportionately? because this sw does not keep the same
always proportions? ... more time. Of course! one of the best tools of pipes that allow to "scale" locally a zone or even a single component to facilitate reading and/or the layout of the isometric. difficult to explain with a text and much easier to do than to say. Obviously there must be a minimum of interest in learning the program, otherwise it is only stadium typhus.

- vary the orientation on the 3 floors to facilitate readingrsp: this of the loser point of view is a thing that can also present itself with other sw who, however, respond better precisely because they do not have a module for these operations.
Yes? respond better? Can you make me or post an example not built ad hoc? why is the possibility of otherwise orienting the isometric on the three floors to be considered useless or even harmful to the user?

- move the labels that may be overcome to facilitate readingand this is something I have not understood. is he unable to understand that he is putting a label on the other to cover it? evidently she has little experience also as modeler/extractor of isometrics: on an isometric there can be n labels for n arguments. you can tag the tools, you can have labels for welded components and for those mounted, divided by table and weight, you can have spool numbers, identification of welds, brushing, some identify with a table the separate inches of welding by diameter, others insert tags useful to the management of materials and more.- print the iso.
re: after printing (this is what you do from me) you make the mark up in red that will then be marked with the highlighter as they settle in autocad and/or microstation.your workflow is obviously wrong. Do you know the computer saying gigo? garbage in garbage out?These operations are the normal procedure of cadmatic use and as already mentioned, in many cases you do not do and when you do take a few minutes to iso.vorrei capire questi a few minutes his expressions in numbers since my parents are already enough as time devoted only to an iso.the minutes are related to the experience of use and the business workflow. As for me, chronometer to the hand, you can talk from 1 to 5 minutes depending on the complexity of the line, its fractionation and the number of additional information implemented by macro or pipe.modeling is not Moroccan, you can work remotely, but the iso makes you waste time.all here his comments? Why not express better? Can you tell us what you mean by saying, "Is modeling not Moroccan? Maybe with other programs is it?
and what do you mean by you can work remotely? Can you explain to the other users of the forum this particularity?
on the iso that make them waste time has already been fully expressed and thank you for the criticisms that you wanted to make, while not sharing the approach of reticence towards the use of pipes, I can understand that "scanting a button" is the never reached ambition of all piping modelers:biggrin:

 

[telecad]

Good morning. .
kind marcobi,
"I'm kind of I don't know what that means.
"that a modeler like her" I mean? Do we know each other? We worked on the same team at a contractor and I don't remember?
"let me talk about production processes, times and costs" re3: everyone intends work in a strictly personal way. In my opinion a professional must never forget that in his small represents the company for which he works and therefore must try to achieve the goals in a context of overall vision to improve the strengths and to identify any anomalies that can somehow slow down the work flow looking and/or proposing an improvement solution.
"but he was not at least involved in defining the purchase of the sw he uses. " 4: see reply 2. In addition... sin not being at the presentation of the sw

She keeps writing almost like she has to convince someone. . .
looks more like a seller than a modeler. See, (in my opinion) if a post something in a forum like this, it does so to give support and receive it in need... to help each other.
If you would like to make your contribution, you could tell me who took care of the cadmatic settings that you use (it is the last time I ask you, but nothing), or instead of asking me other examples might post you something (I remember that I, number 1 and gricozzi we posted material in support of the written, but you do not). now for me she can continue endlessly with the advertising of this sw... I, according to the cadmatic that is in the company from me (and we have already clarified that is different from her) rest of my idea. I want to know that this sw is a valid alternative, but it seems to me an unprofessional attitude from his writing: "Evidently she has little experience as a modeler/extractor of isometrics:" to advertise the sw, since we don't know each other, do you think?
greetings